Just realized I was doing the thing in the meme. Yikes! Well now I got to think about that.

I thought the good omens show was really good. I haven’t read the book.

I think you could argue that they’re actually trying to mimic real numbers.

Firstly they did not even know that musical festival was taking place.

Why does this matter. Would Israels reaction be different? They wanted to genocide from the beginning.

Secondly they are not “civilians” they are settlers illegally occupying Palestinian land.

With the understanding that they would be protected by their government. They are evil fascists, but that doesn’t make them combatants.

lastly they are not a “religious extremist organization” even if they once had been.

Do you have a source on this? I am open to changing my position on this.

So here you are legitimizing violence of a settler colonial ethnostate as “self defense”

That statement is very broad. I am legitimizing specific violence of a settler colonial ethnostate as “self defense”. I think they are in their right to dismantle Hamas using violence. But what they have done has far surpassed that. I think Israel has the ability to arrest/kidnap and try high ranking members of Hamas. I think that would be a reasonable response to October 7th. But they did the worst possible thing and I don’t condone that.

I was far too generous before. I wish the same upon you as I do on the IDF.

Oh yeah, my belief that Israel is a fascist genocidal state surely makes me morally equivalent to IDF. These nuanced replies I am making is like I am out there killing Palestinian babies my self. Sure!

What’s better is to organize, and agitate against the system directly.

And we are free to think about doing anything towards this goal, except vote?

This seems like a trauma response to blue maga. I think, for the time being, we may have to agree to disagree here. I am in the process of thinking things over and reading some more.

I get not wanting to vote because it doesn’t have any effect on you personally. But if voting improves or decrease the decay of material conditions towards whatever your goals are. I don’t understand not doing it if it isn’t too much trouble. Seems like leaving something on the table to me.

So like I was banned and I deserve more bad treatment? That makes sense. Thanks.

I get that.

I just want to know for myself. As time goes on it seems less likely we are in the set of material conditions that an incremental approach would get us out of this mess.

I’m also doing a lot of thinking and I don’t know if what I am shooting for is electoralism. I mean it depends on getting into power and then breaking capitalism by any means. Even illegal means. So many I fall more under a peaceful revolution type. I need to think and read a bit more. I am not built for reading.

I’m labeled a terrorist by both parties, though. It isn’t an easier under the DNC, and further, the fascism was already here.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I lack that perspective. I will have to think on it.

Yeah, DNC effectively controlled opposition IMHO. I’m not trying to say there should be serious organizational efforts made to vote in a Democrat. I understand the ideological reason why it doesn’t matter who wins. I don’t understand the practical standpoint of not saying, “yeah, sure if you are in a situation where your vote matters, and it isn’t too much of a hassle for you, vote for the less fascist candidate.”

Biden and Trump both are genocidal imperialists, neither is an actual improvement.

I agree, neither is an improvement, but one would have given us at least 4 more years without such and extreme shift towards fascism. Is it not easier to organize without being labeled a terrorist?

As for capitalism, I really don’t know what you’re saying here. It’s only a few hundred years old, it isn’t instinctual.

Yeah, sorry, not saying it is instinctual, well not directly, I’m saying it feels good to think you are the person that owns production. I have played video games where you play as the capitalist. Feel really good to be in that position. I am sure there is some instinct in there some place, but not that it is specific to capitalism.

I’ll have to check those out, but I am worried I won’t find a satisfactory answer. Would you say it is as solid as Marx’s take down of Capital?

The Marxist stance is that 2 and 3 are impossible.

So from a utilitarian standpoint the moral stance is accelerationism, right? Or is there any reason to slow the progress of fascism? Possibly to organize?

I think this is where I get stuck with my discussions in Hexbear. I say things like “Biden will result in less fascist outcomes in the short term vs Trump” and the ideology is such that the average Hexbearian can’t really engage with that line of thinking because there is only violent revolution. It would be immaterial to them who won any election. They don’t have the rhetoric you have, so they start ad homing me and then I start ad homing them in response, then the thread gets deleted because I am a liberal or something like that. No judgment, I don’t think the average person should be expected to have the rhetoric on hand. Just frustrated how much text I have spilled.

As for preventing reimplementation, it requires collectivization of production and distribution, and a state that oppresses capitalists and is under control of the working class.

Yeah, and for that last a long time. I feel like there is no guaranteed defense against capital. People forget things over time and capitalism while stupid, feels good and right, like tribalism.

I see your point, but we need to get more specific.

Hamas is a religious militant organization. Hamas also commits acts of violence against Israeli citizens for political reasons. This makes them definitionally a terrorist organization. Now, the average person assumes is that terrorist are bad. I am not making any judgment or assumptions on that. Terrorism is just the act, not the morality behind the act. Given the circumstances it is reasonable for a Palestinian to join Hamas. I also think it is reasonable for Palestinians to put members of Hamas in charge as no other government leadership has improved the situation with Israel. I believe Israel has been genociding Palestinians for a long time, even before this October 7th thing.

Ok, so, if you are a state and you get attacked by a terrorist organization. I think it is unreasonable to expect any state not to defend itself and it’s citizens. Even a horrible fascist genocidal state like Israel. Imagine a communist or socialist state getting hit by pro capitalist terrorist. Destroying the terrorist organization seems like a reasonable response and if that destruction results in members getting killed, well, they signed up for that.

And that is my argument for Hamas Palestinians. They may have been doing the morally correct thing. But as soon as you join a group like Hamas, your kind of signing up for whatever happens. It’s kind of like joining the military. You are at risk of dying by defending or attacking. It feels bad, but that is the world as it is.

So its not that Hamas Palestinians are “bad” its that they signed up, and they knew what they signed up for. When Hamas was planning the October 7th thing. They knew Israel would strike back at them. I don’t think they expected what Israel did in response, otherwise I don’t think they would have done it.

Now my moral judgment against Hamas is that they are a religious extremist organization and if given power, they would enforce that ideology. Also, it would also be nice if there actions were a little less brutal, but hey, I am not in Gaza.

The difference is pretty big. Israel is soo bad and evil, they are making their enemies who are not good, look good by comparison. It’s insane.

Not a liberal, not a liar, just an idiot. @Edie corrected me. I need to fix the post.

Ah, I am dumb, I need to fix the post. Thanks for clarifying this.

Thanks for the explanation of wrecker.

As for the reformist versus revolution question. Your rhetoric indicates that it’s a solved problem. I find that really hard to believe.

How was it solved? How can we be sure there isn’t a set of material conditions that would allow for reformism to work?

What does YDM mean?

Nope, still banned, also I am not a liberal.

Sorry, yes, some Palestinians are Hamas. Not all Palestinians are Hamas.

Edit: But my point still stands. If Israel just killed all of Hamas, the Palestinian death toll wouldn’t be this large.

Israel is claiming all Palestinians are Hamas to justify killing them. Israel is lying and wants to Genocide Palestinians.

I agree, but I am not a liberal.

Also you had better help out your buddy Spongebobsquarejuche. They are spreading pro Genocide propaganda against Palestinians. https://midwest.social/post/36730554/20445379

I don’t think they are doing intentionally, but someone should explain things to them.