doomcanoe

Oh, hello again, mind keeping your responses to my comments under one thread? It’s inconvenient to jump around like this.

So the workers will work unpaid?

Obviously, in a capitalist system, a worker without the means to cover their needs won’t work without pay. But that only shows that pay is a mechanism of this system, not the goal itself. If another economic structure were in place, people would act according to the incentives and access points that system provided to meet their needs and wants.

We can already see this in practice today: retirees, hobbyists, and people with spare time often volunteer, create, or collaborate in groups for reasons that have nothing to do with money. Their motivation comes from purpose, community, or fulfillment. Proof that creation does not require capital to exist, only a framework that connects effort with meeting human needs.

That’s quite a leap. The wealthy aren’t some separate species with different desires, they want the same fundamental things as everyone else. I never implied anything about “the rich”, and regardless my point isn’t about them. It’s that capital itself is non-essential.

Yes, there’s a bigger discussion to be had about human nature, whether people create out of an inherent drive or simply to secure comfort, and how different incentive systems shape that. But none of those discussions lead to the conclusion that a capital-based economy is the only system in which people would create.

I’m not saying that capital, as a universal equivalent or barter substitute, is inherently a bad solution to the problem of trade. What I am saying is that capital is not inherently essential. It’s an imagined system, useful yes, but replaceable in countless ways.

Think about it: Sure, I wouldn’t want more washers than I have use for, but I don’t inherently want money either. What I want are the things money represents. If money disappeared tomorrow and some other proxy system took its place, I’d want that instead.

And when it comes to creation, say building a phone for example, money contributes nothing to the actual process. You need materials, knowledge, labor, and coordination. The only truly non-essential element is money. It’s as you said, simply a replacement for bartering.

If you disagree with my actual point, I’d love to hear the argument. But I can’t keep arguing with your point that we “need the Matrix in order to live in the Matrix”, or “money in order to live in capitalism”.

You:

People want to be paid for their labor

Me:

capital does “play a role”, at least insofar as incentive predicated on people’s ability to function in the capitalistic society we currently inhabit goes

How awkward, you must have missed me making that exact point…

So sure, people want to be paid. But let’s be clear: they don’t inherently want money, they want to survive, create, and ideally thrive in the society they inhabit. Capital is just the tool we happen to use right now, it’s not essential to the concept of creation.

People created long before money existed, and they still create today without a paycheck attached. Remove capital from the picture, and as long as the work has value to those involved, it still gets made.

The real kicker? Capital often corrupts the process, pushing people to maximize profit instead of maximizing quality or true value.

The only thing you can remove from the process and still get the same result is capital…

And while I get that capital does “play a role”, at least insofar as incentive predicated on people’s ability to function in the capitalistic society we currently inhabit goes, to imply that somehow without it people would be left to trying to “design a phone out of sticks on the ground” is extremely disingenuous.

Fair enough. I was frustrated by blargh’s “Edit/Note To Self”, as it came across as very dismissive and demeaning to the responders who attempted to engage with blargh’s points in good faith. Given that, I felt compelled to respond in equally bad faith. But my tone was uncalled for.

Lol, that’s alot of words to prove my point.

Good day!

Lol, gargle my e-biking balls ya cry baby. Only pretentious twat here is you.

Edit to keep the point but “loose the 'tude”: Take it easy, you’re coming across more dramatic than necessary. Maybe reconsider before calling others pretentious.

Fair point.

But on the flip side, Peter Jackson did say that he had plans to include Tom. At the very least, as a background character singing while walking past the hobbits in the forest. Which he said he hoped would be enough to appease fans. This implies to me that he was aware of the popularity of the character and the fact that not including him would make many people very upset.

Given all of that, it’s also not like Tom completely falls under the umbrella of “stuff they weren’t planning on putting in the movie in the first place”.

So I definitely stand by my point that Jackson considering including Tom, knowing he was a fan favorite, and then choosing not even to record and test the scene, which then later could have been included in the Extended Editions, all of which never came to pass… is crraaazzyy man.

I love Tom, but he was really just an easter egg character for Tolkien’s kids more than an essential character. Not including him in the movies was really the right decision.

Especially when you have so much content specifically relevant to telling the arc of the main characters to get through. Doubly so given these movies were released back before Fantasy was a “blockbuster” genre.

Now the fact that they didn’t include him in the extended editions tho, that’s fuckin craaazzyy man.

Moon light? No… Moon heavy…

“She’s built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro”
-Zapp Brannigan

Obviously the current polarity wasn’t working, what else can ya do?

no

thanks for coming to my Ted talk

Fun fact.

You can do it anyway!

That was the exact question I had for Rian Johnson when I was walking out of TLJ!

I might be a little toasted, but that’s rad

I dunno, they are literally holding a gun to the back of the “Proud Liberal’s” head.

Cool cool, sounds like we both got what we want then! Kudos all around!

Too soon?