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Can’t take them down, as I have none… I kinda value my privacy.
Not to blame anyone here, but I have a hard time understanding how this could ever be considered a smart idea by anyone, even worse when it’s to be used inside one’s home?
Edit: typo.
The video shows that even security cameras by companies like ADT will spy on you. Apparently 2/3 of US households have outdoor security cameras, and 1/3 have internal security cameras.
Most people probably don’t know how to set up their own secure entirely local security camera setup, so they just hire it done, which almost always means connecting it to a corporate cloud.
The idea of having a security camera inside my house is totally insane to me. Convenient to have them outside but inside? What purpose can that possibly serve?
I have one single camera inside my home. I’m very careful about how it is positioned so that it can only see exactly what I want it to see. I adjust it so that no person is visible at any time, except maybe feet walking by.
I have this camera pointed directly at my rabbits litter box and hay bin. Rabbits can get very sick, very quickly and knowing when they last ate and pooped is a massive benefit when they have stomach issues. A rabbit not eating for 2 hours vs 12 hours is a big difference.
Gas for rabbits can be deadly, not eating is a huge warning sign for rabbit health. 2 hours is something I can treat at home, 12 hours will likely require a trip to the emergency vet. The camera has already saved me thousands in emergency vet fees.
That is a great use case that I never even considered as a rabbit owner. A bit off topic,but what sort of camera are you using? What’s the recording backend?
It’s a gen 1 Nest cam that I got as a Christmas gift years ago. I pay a yearly fee to keep video in the cloud for a month. The fee is 100% worth it for my buns.
I’d like to switch to something that is more in house, but my tech skills are not up to that. So I just make sure it only shows the litter and hay boxes.
Good use case, but you’re aware of it and not broadcasting the whole home.
I lived the early days of the internet when cameras were more easily hacked. I try to be aware of that and I’m super careful about positioning for that exact reason.
Plus, I just absolutely love my adorable bunnies even when they poop 🥰
Cameras come with the hack preinstalled now
You’re not wrong!
You can see what’s happening while you’re away. Ideally it would only turn on when the normal occupants aren’t home. I wanted one when we were out of town and our security system triggered a movement alarm inside. Outside cameras didn’t catch anything and a cop came and looked around but didn’t see anything. I’m guessing the motion sensor picked up on the curtains moving or something.
Otherwise, it’s pretty handy for proving that you told someone something 3 weeks ago to win an argument. /s
Yeah I have one for the living room that should be able to see anyone coming in from all the doors around the house. I only turn it on when away, and of course my cameras store everything locally.
and of course my cameras store everything locally
That’s the biggest thing. Just store (and access) footage locally.
Being able to view the cameras remotely is a nice idea in theory, but it raises so many privacy concerns. Just not worth it in most cases. How often would you actually open some app and actually look at the remote video feed?
No, it’s best to just skip that feature and be local only, with no internet connection at all.
- Areas of entry where there might be a better view for capturing the face or features of an intruder, specifically with better lighting conditions.
- Watching pets that are home alone
- Keeping an eye on someone, like small kids or an adult with a debilitating issue
- Insurance discounts
I have indoor cameras. I’m not really worried about the first one, the second is no longer a concern unfortunately as my dog passed away from cancer in January. I mostly have them for the last item at this point.
That said, ive used them to help keep an eye on my Dad, who had ALS. He knew he could signal to the camera for help (usually the remote fell, but a couple of times it was for medical equipment). All internal though, not internet connected.
When my kids were still in cribs, I set up cameras in their rooms as well. Hearing phantom cries is a real thing, and I had no interest in the crappy-yet-expensive baby monitors.
So yeah, they have their uses.
Elderly adults living alone may be a legitimate case. There’s not a lot of good options for that scenario.
Even helpful when they aren’t alone tbh, just going downstairs into the basement to do some laundry could be an issue - some of the medical equipment would sound like a tornado siren, others would beep-boop like a new dishwasher or washing machine/dryer finishing.
So the cameras were pretty handy even with people around for when we had to go to another room/floor.
Watching pets, kids, 3D printers
Streaming kids activity is utterly insane. Walk over and interact with them!
Who said people weren’t? Remember, projecting your behavior and “morals” onto groups you don’t know speaks more about you than them. When it comes to infants it can be great peace of mind. Breaking the instinct for many to constantly enter and disturb their rest, to make sure they’re still breathing etc.
I agree they shouldn’t be broadcast to the Internet or 3rd parties. Or placed in sensitive areas, or substitute parental interaction. But they have value. There just needs to be better methods for access not designed to be controlled by 3rd parties. For any new smart devices I get, matter or zwave/ZigBee are mandatory.
I agree they shouldn’t be broadcast to the Internet or 3rd parties.
But with minimal exceptions, that’s exactly what they’re doing.
That speaks more to a lack of better options. Than anyone’s desire to actually broadcast their children. If someone were making an affordable camera system with a hardware management Hub local that you could log in through tail scale or similar. People would be clamoring for it.
Unfortunately right now with the AI bubble is about the worst possible time to launch such a product or project. Even a formerly cheap of single board computer such a Raspberry Pi. Which used in the cost about $35 on its own now costs closer to 100. Although there are a number of good inexpensive ESP camera modules now.
Judging by some Reddit posts, it’s useful when you beat the shit out of intruders and can a) prove self-defence, b) brag about it.
Most baby monitors have cameras nowadays. So that’s one possible reason.
It’s not a good reason. Kids in general aren’t defensible even. Walk over and look at them. My floors are squeaky and kids slept poorly and it’s manageable.
Yeah that part I can’t really imagine doing, knowing that you’d never have anywhere where you’re not being watched and recorded. Baffles me as well.
I have one pointing at my front door, came with the house. It’s nice when the security system freaks out and sets off a motion alarm (probably my cat) so i can stop the alarm before the cops are called. I don’t think I’ll be installing a new one the same way though, and this one is pretty much EOL. It’s also turned off whenever the alarm isn’t set
Baby cam
Someone doesn’t have mischievous kids…
At this point I assume any electronic product or website is malicious and spying on me (or at least trying).
I think the premise of easy access to a live feed of your pet at home or just your house while you’re out of town is straightforward enough
That I understand, it’s their basic marketing. What I don’t understand is how that can work.
Aren’t we also supposed to be adults? aka people able to consider the cost/consequences of our choices and of… free gifts?
I’m not a geek, but the day those gizmo started promoting “easy access to a live feed of your pet at home” what I read was “easy access to (…) your (…) home by a technology I don’t control (nor really understand)”. To non-geek me, it was a bit like give my home keys to some smiling random stranger. Sure, e may be a nice guy that will only use the key when I want him to. But he may also not be. And I’m old enough to not be willing to trust some random stranger, even one with a nice smile.
The ease of use. Setting up IP cameras to be safety accessed from outside your local network is not easy for most people. And there are legitimate uses even in the home.
I’m currently working on getting things all switched over to POE IP cameras, contained in a separate VLAN behind an instance of frigate. Your average consumer’s brains would have been dribbling from their ear before the comma in that last sentence.
Your average consumer’s brains would have been dribbling from their ear before the comma in that last sentence.
I can understand that very easily: I’m that average consumer, no doubt about that ;) but I was also keenly aware my privacy was worth more than the convenience of me using whatever trendy gizmo without me fully controlling it. So, not being able to control those tools I decided to use none. Like I do not use any smart-anything.
Edit: rephrasing for clarity’s sake.
Using the services of others has always been a trade-off. Though I’m not very concerned with them knowing that my lights come on at Sunset and go off at 11:00. Or that I change the color of them sometimes. And if they want to watch my fish tanks or the grass grow, well I suppose that’s on them. Honestly if you have a smartphone it’s a bigger intrusion and risk than any of these other things.
Right there with you, I never understood how anyone could be dumb enough to install hardware that had a mind of its own, other than basically as a specimen for an experiment that was carefully and regularly monitored.
Like… obviously what is now happening is always what was going to happen.
Anywho, because I’m too lazy to click a few times: Alexa, play ‘Where is My Mind?’
Sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.
But that’s not my name! It’s actually -/
…
/- here wait, just take a picture of my drivers liscense and credit cards.
Same, but just like with drinking and drugs, you don’t get kudos for never starting.
No cameras outside or inside my house. The only working camera I own is the one on my phone, and I barely use it.
Same, but just like with drinking and drugs, you don’t get kudos for never starting.
True that.
Or outside, I’m not giving the government/pigs more surveillance nodes it’s bad manners.
It’s not that people consider it a smart idea, it’s more that the majority of people aren’t tech savvy and privacy-conscious enough to realize the implications. It also doesn’t help that the big-tech, cloud-based, and managed solutions are usually the easiest and most convenient to set up for the lay person.
100%
i had to watch several of his videos on surveillance before realizing that this is the guy who saved a .png image to a bird
Dude is all over the place and I kinda love it. From his teardown of capitalism, his insight on how music streaming platforms take advantage of musicians, to making spacey dream music with an antique model train control board, to an in depth analysis in how cicadas make noise, and now becoming a privacy activist and amateur white hat hacker. It’s crazy
He started as a producer of idm and breakcore, and has about fifteen aliases. His arc into cypherpunk isn’t wholly unexpected, but is nevertheless appreciated, especially considering he’s getting up in years.
I unplugged mine like a year ago but they’re still there physically as a deterrent, hopefully. Been wanting to try out something self-hosted.
but they’re still there physically as a deterrent, hopefull
This is a smart move
I installed the ubiquity one since I already had the udm pro.
Ubiquiti is one of those ones I’ve never fully figured out, I really like their products but logging in using the ui.com account makes it seem like there’s at least some aspect the relies on a cloud connection and therefore offers access from outside, maybe I just missed a setting to set everything to local login only, I dunno, don’t have my Ubiquiti system up and running anymore.
You can still log in locally. The cloud version is so you can log in anywhere.
I use a cloud login so I can manage mine and friends network but you can do local only. Even without Internet I can login to my stuff still when I’m at home.
I went with a waterproof usb webcam fed through the wall and connected to a raspberry pi with motioneye
Frigate is great for self-hosted!
You can buy a fake camera with a blinking red led for like $1
My landlord has those already. They’re attached to the fence and there’s no wire attached to it. I feel like most criminals are aware of these and aren’t fooled.
Well you need to attach a wire to it.
Most criminals are dumb, if they’re smart enough to care about cameras they’ll be deterred by a fake one too.
And of course a lot of cameras don’t even have wires.
Jokes on you I was never dumb enough to buy one in the first place.
There are some situations that having your data in the cloud makes more sense than others.
Having a live video feed of your home is like one of the top worse use cases.
Best one imo is steam game saves
Best one imo is steam game saves
Until they figure out how to have AI build profiles based on Steam game saves.
This person always chooses the Arasaka ending every time. Recommend for complementary leadership courses and corporate advancementVs
Always sides with the Underground Railroad. Reject 🧊 job application as potential insider threat… What do you think kernel level anti cheat is there for?
Stopping cheats?
Its sucks ass at that.
But it can read and write basically every bit on your PC.
I meant best as in relatively.
I don’t have any smart cameras but I’ve been thinking of getting a camera for my front porch lately to deter (and possibly chase down) porch pirates. I live on a busy pedestrian street so I’ve had packages stolen within 10 minutes…
Does anyone have a privacy respecting, preferably self hosted, camera suggestion? I’d love if it could notify me when a delivery has been made
Home assistant can use basically any device with a camera, if you have an old phone or smth
I use a Raspberry Pi with two external usb cameras running MotionEyeOS. It’s easy to flash to a micro SD and I got a waterproof box to keep the pie dry.
I’ve been very happy with Reolink so far - it works with Home Assistant so can be (is) self hosted through with a server as well as the onboard SD card.
Some people have a box for packages for that.
I’m also a fan of putting a fake package out full of dog shit… Just put a fake address on it and they won’t remember where it came from.
I think think might be illegal…
Or you could put a package with a tracker in it.Yeah look at https://frigate.video/ for the software and the look at the cameras they recommended. I believe reolink cameras which are kept from accessing the Internet are one of the recommended approaches.
Are my cameras smart if they are in an isolated network with a dual homed home assistant/frigate server? They seem smart to me, notifications, detections, stored clips to my nas.
He does show that wireless cameras WiFi activity can be used to track people inside their home. But that seems like a targeted attack, not necessarily something that would be used for mass surveillance. But locally hosting the footage removes you from almost all the issues in general and what’s brought up in this video. Just ideally you’d run the cameras over PoE.
Wired or wireless?
Wired cat6 Ethernet throughout the home
By the way, getting into poorly secured cameras is in no way new. The Shodan search engine was launched in 2009, and its use for finding cameras was described in 2013 at the latest.
I live in a country all properties are walled by default, I have a camera pointed at my front door and one at my garage door and then other cameras inside around the house. None captures any neighbor, just a bit of my sidewalk in front of my door/garage door. Those cameras use coaxial cables connected to a DVR inside my house recording the footage on an HDD. No internet connection, no image being transported through Wi-Fi or Bluetooth… but also no encryption anywhere… how hackable are these?
The video is focused on cloud/internet enabled security cameras. A security system that isn’t internet accessible and only stores footage locally is not of any concern unless you think someone would break into your house to take the HDD’s themselves.
Talking about the Tempest Attack he mentions, which he tested in other video as well, accessing the camera feed with an antenna capturing electromagnetic emissions, but he was doing it on those wireless cameras so perhaps cabled cameras are safer. I did a quick research here, and if it was analog signal it would be easier, but for HD-over-Coaxial it’s more complex because they use multiple bandwidths and each model has different modulation schemes, also they have less leakage so they’d need to be really close to get it, making trying to get access to the feed from inside my property very troublesome.
Unintentionally, having second-rate equipment turned out to be a very secure option lol
I’d be more worried about the corporate and state actors in your case. A criminal would have to already have intimate access to your home to snatch your video feed, so I wouldn’t worry about that. If you do find a way to encrypt the video before saving to the HDD, that would protect you against police or insurance companies viewing the footage without your key.
ETA: Though, NOT providing the key may give them reason to believe you have something to hide and pit them against you. 🤷
Mine are wired and cloudless, on a separate locked down VLAN and I still barely trust them.
Supply chain attacks are getting worse and more frequent…
Thats what we’ve been moving to. It took a long while but i was finally able to convince my partner that ring cameras (or any cloud service) are a problem and a huge trade off for our privacy. We are moving to replace the doorbell and drive way camera’s we currently have. Have any recommendations for wired cameras? I’ve got an older SAN i can repurpose for local recordings and a POE switch.
I’ve been using amcrest and have been happy so far. Frigate is a pretty good NVR too.
Security cameras keep no one secure. All they do is provide a memento of the crime after the fact. Just like locks just keep honest people honest.
You show video of your truck that’s too big to fit in your garage, even if it weren’t filled with all the crap you bought on Amazon, being stolen to a cop, and the cop will say, “Yeah, nice video. Do you know the guy? No? Neither do I. Sign here.”
